genina.com: Forum

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 11 Jun 2012 02:28:55

Here's an update for everyone, and some reasons why fast times are possible.

Best Times:
1. Easy - 0:40
2. Medium - 1:07
3. Hard - 1:38
4. Extreme - 2:36

Reasons for Improvements:
1. I recently changed from cell input first to digit, and this has made a huge difference, particularly in easy.
2. Medium depends on the puzzle given. Some grids won't even allow a time below 3 minutes, others are similar to easy. Treat them like hard puzzles but fast!
3. Practice gets you far with hard puzzles. So does a good puzzle when you're in form.
4. I discovered a particular grid (very rare) that doesn't require pencil or very meticulous and time-consuming calculations. Apart from this one puzzle, a time of less than 5 minutes is extremely difficult. I always use pencil in extremes for digits which I have 6 or more, this means if I knock out one of those pencil marks I'll often be able to solve that digit and there's no chance to forget.

I would like to see a second type of competition with the timer pause function disabled. That should satisfy the folks using their phones or have other legitimate reasons to pause. Personally, I wouldn't think this to be a big problem for those solving in under 5 minutes. Surely, the world can survive that long without your vast knowledge, wisdom, and experience. Then I'd like to see a comparison of the times between the two competitions. Yes, there will still be those who will find a way to cheat, using puzzle solving software and such. This just has me baffled, why anyone would stoop to cheating in a competition with no real rewards except bragging rights, but the human condition is a strange one indeed. Anyway that's my two cents, if it's worth that much.

The name of this thread is "timer exploit," but the real theme here is cheating. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the super-low times people are seeing are almost NEVER due to the use of the pause function. Take Easy mode as an example. A legit low time (no pause) can be as low as 40 seconds, as pointed out in a previous post. Lower legit times are possible, I'm sure. The times that we all assume are cheats include 11 seconds. I want everyone that thinks pause is a cheating method, for the sake of science, to try it! Seriously. Grab a camera, a pencil, some paper, and the device which you use to play Genina Sudoku, and try to match 11 seconds. Try to beat 40. Heck, try to get a time under 1 minute!

The use of pause might be a cheat for Extreme mode, but it certainty is not for Easy mode. If you look at the percentage of competition entries that you consider cheats for each skill level, I suspect you will find that they are all about the same. What this indicates to me is that people aren't using the pause mode for cheating on Hard and Extreme, unless they are using some other, more effective, method for cheating on Easy and Medium. My conclusion? Pause is almost never used to cheat! Due to the number of posts to this thread, it is obvious that cheating occurs often enough that it is seen as a problem.

I assume that the bulk of posters on this thread are NOT cheaters. What is happening here is that people are asking themselves the question "if I were to cheat, how could it be done?," and the conclusion often reached is "pause." Believe me when I tell you: the people actually cheating have thought about this question far longer than you, have much more knowledge of the internal workings of smart phones, and have come up with much more effective methods of cheating than using pause. Of the many things this means is that disabling pause will have absolutely no effect on cheating whatsoever. Please read that last sentence a few times and let it sink in.

I totally agree with what Lampshade said and I would also like to add that this is not a competition. It's a means to have fun and take your brain to the limits trying to beat YOUR time.
I only play extreme and with "cell first" I've managed to get as low as 4:26 and my top 10 times are below 6:00 and when I started I had times on the 15 min range. I believe that there are people that can get sub 3 min times even close to 2 min, without cheating. It's how fast you find that digit that unlocks all the board. But to hell with that, I'm not a Chinese MIT student

Unless you cheat just for the thrill of beating the system there is no real reason and you are only fooling yourself. And I mean really smart ways, not taking a pic of the board and solving it paused.
There is a french saying (not french)
"There is no pillow so soft as a clear consciense"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2 Dec 2012 13:00:52

sharkattack_nt@hotmail.com wrote:Reasons for Improvements:
1. I recently changed from cell input first to digit, and this has made a huge difference, particularly in easy.

I did this right before I got on the plane to fly home for thanksgiving, and since then I've completely replaced my top ten times for all difficulty levels. My top easy time dropped from around 1:40 to 1:08. I am pretty sure I can crack the one minute mark with a bit more practice and luck.

I just got a 1:54 on the medium grid, and made the statistics page for the first time (I switched to cell input).
Any idea how many people we are competing against here? I mean, is it just a couple hundred people who play this game, or is it millions?

yakov_shaul wrote: and my girlfriend does it in less then 5 sec, so yes, it is possible .

LOL, You can't even touch every square in 5 seconds.

I have rea all the posts on this topic, and have come to the conclusion that either;
Some of the claims made, are fictional,
I am as thich as two short planks.
I would like to challenge those with sub ten minute times, in extreme, to video the achievement.
Any one prepared to accept?

Guys, I personally have my extreme times mostly around 4:00-4:30, depending on puzzle and/or shape. It's possible, you just have to type fast (number first input) and think even faster.
My personal best is 3:40 and I won't deny it - I got lucky. But I have the puzzle penciled out usually under 1:45 and the rest is actual solving.
Regarding the video - I would do it without hesitation, but sadly, my only video making thing is my phone, which I have to use to solve the actual Sudoku (and no, my camera can't take video, I have a Nikon D3000, I am amateur photographer, feel free to look me up on deviantart).

Ummmm there is a 1 second time in competition today.... really? Kinda brazen with the audacity there. And yes, I agree.... it kinda beats the fun when a whole slew of folks have to make it the best cheater competition or fastest data entry. It is sad how low a great number of folks stoop in such trivial things. Canmt imagine the corners they cut in real life with real consequences.

I have had some mid two's times in Hard... I can see mid four's on extreme. However, less than a minute on hard I have a hard time seeing. Even in the low one minute times there would be an entry a second almost... now the video concept is fairly plausible. Then again, I am seeing some of the same puzzles come back around after playing this game for a year so the results are still at odds when we have been playing for awhile and seeing the same puzzles

Simon wrote:Well there is no real way around that. The timer stops so that a person can come back to play later if they have a phone call or something and they won't lose time. If a person actually wants to test themselves, they will play honestly. Competition mode isn't finalized yet so we're still working on it. If you have suggestions, we'd love to hear them. We're always open to suggestions. You can email them to us directly at sudoku@genina.com

Remove the possibility to upload paused games. If People realy is as fast as theyr cheat times they want need to pause the game anyhow. Then start records all over again.

franner wrote:I have rea all the posts on this topic, and have come to the conclusion that either;
Some of the claims made, are fictional,
I am as thich as two short planks.
I would like to challenge those with sub ten minute times, in extreme, to video the achievement.
Any one prepared to accept?

Most of the posts on here are DUMB. This guy challenging anyone who "claims" to have a SUB-10 MINUTE time to video it, because apparently, this genius thinks so highly of his crappy 10:00 best as impossible to beat without cheating. What a joke. I don't even remember the last time I finished a puzzle in 10 minutes. Hell, even 6 minutes.

And all of you complaining about someone cheating... who cares if someone posts a 1 second time? It doesn't matter. It's not keeping you off the leader boards. I make the board on hard and extreme almost daily, and I do it just by playing for fun. Some people are good, some people aren't, and some people are the best. If that's not you, it'll be okay. Just stop thinking there's something wrong with everybody else.